Saturday, July 23, 2005

Excusing Terrorists

I grow tired of hearing how we "deserved" the September 11th attacks--which, incidentally, happened before the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq!--and how the British "deserved" the London bombings and how the corrupt Egyptian government "deserved" to have tourists blown up at Sharm-el-Sheikh and how....

Lefties, pay close attention now. I'm going to try to explain how stupid it is for you to try to blame anyone but the terrorists for these actions. And to do this I'll quote from this Debra Saunders article:

Imagine, as I've written before, if anti-abortion terrorists began killing innocent civilians and said they would stop only if the government outlaws abortion. (After all, if terrorism wins for Islamic extremists, why shouldn't U.S. extremists adopt it?) The Left would not fault pro-abortion policies. The Left would not blame the government for legalizing abortion. The Left -- correctly -- would denounce the terrorists, the violence and any attempt to extort policy by threatening innocent lives.

Does that make it any more clear to you?

Well, at least I tried.


Anonymous said...

"Imagine, as I've written before, if anti-abortion terrorists began killing innocent civilians and said they would stop only if the government outlaws abortion."

I don't have to imagine it. It has already happened.

I'm surprised Bush hasn't used it as an excuse to invade Canada.

Darren said...

Don't be surprised, Mother. We on the right recognize that those people are on the fringe, that they're trying to make the ends (no abortion) justify the means (terrorist acts of blowing up buildings and killing people). What mainstream conservative supports these people?

The right doesn't tolerate murder, even for a cause in which it believes. The left will agree with and promote *anyone* who disagrees with President Bush and/or Republicans, even if those people are blowing up buildings and trains and buses.

As for "It has already happened", get a grip. We've not seen a sustained campaign of abortion clinic bombings.

Darren said...

Like I said, at least I tried.

Delete this said...

"[Name of person] you and Progressive Pete may not be terrorist sympathizers in that you agree with their tactics. But the fact that you try to excuse, explain, and justify their activities certainly allows for such a belief in those of us who do not."

I have not posted for a while for several reasons. One, I have a life. Two, I have a busy life. Three, while blogging away on conservative websites I get responses like the one above. Indeed, between two conservative websites I often visit (Miller's Time and Views from the Right on the Left Coast) I am finding that their rage seems to outdo their ability to carry on in a conversation and that by the end of a discussion, usually, not always, they have either stopped responding to me (they can't seem to keep up a debate based on facts) or come at me with asinine statements like the one above. Before any rebuttals begin to take form I must confess that I have not always been the kindest of bloggers myself. However, I can say with all factuality that my final posts or comments don't end with a temper tantrum declaring such misperceptions as the one above. I have even apologized and wished them well on their blogs to which their only response is either to state "no problem" or the recognition of being a member of the human race. Their contempt for me and my ideology is amazing (one even tried to ban me from his site but then asked me to meet for a cup of coffee later on! AHHH!!!). Their belief in the virtues of democracy, free exchange, the American concept of dissent (anybody remember the American Revolution) are forgotten or neglected. "Unpatriotic" I am called; supposedly I am a man who supports the death of our troops because I do not support the war. I do not know how many times, in how many ways, I can explain logically, factually, and understandably that the war in Iraq is not linked to terrorism and that I and most liberals are against this war because it has been based on a lie (remember the whole WMD thingy!). I and most liberals support the war on terror and fully supported the war in Afghanistan. Hey, does anybody know where Osama is? What happened to that guy! He has been missing (from Sept. 11) longer than the United States' involvement in WWII. OSAMA BIN FORGOTTEN! To claim that I do not support our military because I am against the war is a bit absent-minded when you understand that I am against our boys and girls dying for no reason, in a war with no justification—no WMDs, no links to Osama, and connections to terrorism that place it as dangerous as any Islamic country and tame in comparison to Afghanistan, Pakistan, North Korea, and Saudi Arabia. If anyone is to be accused of not supporting the military it is the conservative who wants them to wage a needless war, to put themselves in harms way without justification, to jeopardize their health for a lie about WMDs, to kill over 100,000 Iraqis, to impose the U.S. system of government on one nation while propping up dictatorships in others, and believing they died defending the red, white, and blue! SHAME ON YOU for wanting our young American boys and girls die for such a cause! Who is the real patriot? Nonetheless, I do not believe most conservatives are unpatriotic, unintelligent, nor unaware. I find many to have logical and factual arguments—to a point. I do believe, however, that most conservatives, while wanting the best for our country, do not want a democratic or equal society and most are ignorant of most facts. When a fact does not fit their ideology they attack it, ignore it, or defend it at all costs. For them, Bush can't be wrong; the war in Iraq can not be wrong for they feel it destroys their ideological, dogmatic, (theocratic), points of view. I, and many liberals and progressives, have no problem being wrong, being angry with other liberals, and demanding change. I believe in truth, not political parties. Conservatives need to step up, salvage their image, and save their reputation for wanting a better world before this current administration locks you into a permanent image of war-maonger, bible-thumbing, ignorant idiots. Stand up to what is being done wrong. I believe in peace and a forceful hand when needed, not the death of innocent women and children. I believe in democracy, not theocracy. I want to live in a land where my vote counts, my voice is heard, and I have liberties to do what I want as long as it does not violate someone else's rights or the constitution. I want to live in a society where we all respect other people's basic civil rights—rights that all groups and members of society have. I don't believe in the granting of rights based on superficial characteristics such as marriage only being for a man and a woman. We can have the Ten Commandments decorate a courthouse and violate the separation of church and state but we can not have an anti-Iraq piece of art hung in the basement of a DOJ office! If we do fight war, do we not fight for these rights? "I may disagree with what you say but will defend to the death your right to say it." I am called unpatriotic but I am not the one who, according to the official flag code of the U.S., desecrates the American Flag by putting it on bumper stickers and shirts. I believe more people need to learn the amendments, U.S. history, and the definition of democracy before they believe those who disagree with them are unpatriotic.

Darren said...

It's amazing what perspective does. See, I'm the one who thinks that *I* use logic and facts and debate and it is *you* who goes looney. Oh well.

I'm curious about the coffee business. I know I invited you for coffee, but who tried to ban you from a site? Can't be me--I don't do that, although I have been known to delete comments (less than half a dozen in over 300 blog posts) that far exceed the bounds of civility.

Practicing your 1st Amendment right to free speech doesn't make you patriotic. In fact, I dare say that the 1st Amendment was created in part to protect unpatriotic speech. Oh, and the 1st Amendment applies only to government--I'm free to manage this site as I see fit, and I grant much leeway to your disagreements but clearly draw the line at incivility. If I did not have this we would have anarchy here. I thought you libs liked "government" control over everything! *I* am the government here.

"I do believe, however, that most conservatives, while wanting the best for our country, do not want a democratic or equal society and most are ignorant of most facts." What an elitist statement. We disagree with you so we *must* be ignorant. Amazing. Daddy knows best, that's the lefty mantra.

And please don't talk to me about rage. I defy you to find where I so much as seem heated, much less in a rage. You, on the other hand, wrote how much in your last comment, which includes simulated yelling? Again, amazing.

Stay in school, Pete. It suits you well.

Now, how about that coffee before I take off for Canuckistan?

Darren said...

Oh, and please don't try to convince me about your love for the American fighting man and woman. These people, especially the ones in the Mid East, are reenlisting at amazing rates. They believe in their mission. Interesting that you don't. I think they have a better perspective on what's going on over there than you do, actually.

Here's a fun exercise. Google this sentence: "I support the troops but not the war." See how much you can learn from what shows up. Just the first 10 results will do.

Anonymous said...

It's also very annoying when posters post very long comments that have no paragraphs.

Separate your thoughts into paragraphs or they read like a jumbled mess.

Anonymous said...

Reenlisting at amazing rates? Are you nuts? Every returned troop I've spoken to hates Bush, and thinks we're doing no good there at all. Support for the war is well below forty-five percent among US citizens, and may soon reach the high thirties. When, pray, will you wake up?

Oh, and please don't try to convince me of your love for the American fighting man and woman. Like most other conservatives who support the war, you clothe yourself in an empty patriotism that makes you feel good about yourself, while pompously denouncing those with whom you disagree as somehow being "leftist" or "bad Americans," all the while giving lip service to free thought and intelligent debate. If you were a good American, you would understand that denouncing the war in Iraq is the act of a patriot. Progressive Pete is a patriot; you're not.

Darren said...

Being a West Point graduate and being on an emaillist of fellow graduates, and having friends who have served and are currently serving in Iraq and Afghanistan, I stand by my statements. Additionally, while recruiting is suffering here at home, reenlistment rates, especially for those soldiers in the Mideast, *are* above normal.

They support their mission, want to see it through to the end, and adore their commander-in-chief. If you disagree, then we have very different views.

I consider myself a patriot. And I don't need you to tell me what a "good American" would do. I don't see denouncing your country, its president, and its fight against terrorism and tyranny as the sign of a patriot, except perhaps in Mirror Universe Land.