Thursday, December 11, 2008

Obama's "Kinder, Gentler" War on Terror

American intelligence agencies, and even the FBI, must drool at what European agencies are allowed to do. We have people scream over the Patriot Act, but the French especially would feel hamstrung if they could do only what it allows.

Many times I've told the story of how there's no such thing as "police brutality" in Germany--the Polizei are allowed to beat the snot out of you if you need it! And don't even get me started on the Italian caribinieri.

If German police are allowed to do this, imagine what their intelligence agencies can do.

This is one area where I hope a President Obama does get some influence from our so-called European betters.

Update, 12/12/08: I keep telling you it's political. No one really believes there's anything wrong with the detention facility at Guantanamo Bay:

Treat this as the latest round in the Guantanamo discussion … David Cole writes in the Boston Review on detention. Joanne Mariner of Human Rights Watch, Bobby Chesney and Eric Posner all respond online there. But if it’s sensible and legal now, why wasn’t it sensible and legal during the Bush years?

17 comments:

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Anonymous said...

Please allow me to say that the decision the German police vice- chief had made was a an absolute singularity- his one, not allowed in his country. German police won´t hurt a fly, they speak with caught offenders, lecture them, are spit on and sometimes hit hard, even then only handcuffing the delinquent. The policemen involved were all tried and found guilty of breaking German law.

Darren said...

Interesting. That's not what I remember of the Polizei.

Donalbain said...

Plenty of people do believe that the process that includes Guantanamo is wrong. And that includes some of the military lawyers who have been involved in that process..

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/23/us/23gitmo.html?_r=1&ei=5070&en=249175a890898cc3&ex=1185854400&adxnnl=1&emc=eta1&adxnnlx=1185223886-UtLupuxMoBOXbx8CiWE9sg

http://s3.amazonaws.com/propublica/assets/docs/vandeveld_declaration_080922.pdf

Darren said...

If our President thought it was wrong, he could shut it down at any time.

If our Democrat-controlled Congress thought it was wrong, they could have shut it down any time in the last two years.

Donalbain said...

Oh. When you said "No one really believes there's anything wrong", I assumed you meant No one really believes there's anything wrong. Sorry, I should have realised you didnt.

Darren said...

I'll clarify for you: no one but idiots, trouble-makers, and trolls thinks there's anything wrong with Guantanamo.

That's not to say that supporters of Guantanamo can't be idiots--see "Congress, United States" for starters.

Donalbain said...

OK.. so the lawyers quoted above are "idiots, trouble makers or trolls"? Well, name calling makes it easier to dismiss their opinions I guess. But hey, what would they know? They were only intimately involved in the process, while you are the real expert.

Darren said...

I'll accept their disagreements as valid. I don't accept many others, including politicians (who claim they're against it but don't do anything against it) and "civilians" who are more anti-Bush than anti-Guantanamo.

Ellen K said...

So...I read where some of the "innocent" prisoners from Gitmo are willing to confess to their crimes. So either they think they will get a lesser punishment due to the incoming administration or they don't care anymore. But the bottom line is that when they were first slapped in Gitmo it was because they were terrorists, not members of any recognized military force and they were involved in the planning and execution of known terror acts. As such, they could be treated any way we chose. And BTW, this also means Bush was right.

Donalbain said...

SOME were slapped in Guantanamo Bay because they were "terrorists" (not that I am convinced you are a terrorist if you attack soldiers as some of them did). Others were not. Indeed, one was kidnapped just after he had been CLEARED of the terrorism charges he was accused of.

And Darren, you already said that you reject opinions opposed to your own as being insincere.. no need to repeat yourself.

Darren said...

Don't be a troll.

Donalbain said...

Pointing out that you are incorrect is NOT trolling. But thanks again for proving the point about the name calling.

Darren said...

I'm not incorrect. And while you may not be a troll, you certainly fill the role of one here.

Donalbain said...

Yes, you are. You said "No one really believes there's anything wrong with the detention facility at Guantanamo Bay". I then showed you two people who believed that very thing. Hence you are incorrect.

Darren said...

Not incorrect. Just nuanced.

Ask The One about nuance.

Donalbain said...

So, when you say "none" and the answer is "some", you are not incorrect? Fair enough.