I had the following discussion with a student today. Obviously I don't remember it word for word, but I'll endeavor to reproduce it as faithfully as possible. The conversation occurred at the end of Zoom class:
Student: I don't understand why those projects I turned in aren't being counted.
Me: Given that I explained this to you in an email last week, what don't you understand?
Student: I know they were late, but I turned them in.
Me: One was turned in days late, the other was turned in 2 weeks late. I'm not going to accept that. What do you think the due dates were for?
Student: I don't remember hearing you say we couldn't turn in late work.
Me: Did I tell you you could?
Student: No, I just thought I could.
Me: One of those projects was due in August, the other was due in September. Why did you wait until this month to ask about them?
Student: I saw they weren't graded, I just thought eventually they would.
"I don't remember hearing you say we couldn't turn in late work." I think this is verbatim. I remember because the sentiment struck me as so...wrong. It's my fault that he/she didn't turn his/her work in? Oh heck no!
The student is a college-bound senior, and no extenuating circumstances were claimed for why the work was so late.
You can nip this in the bud with explicit wording in the syllabus. Something like "Late work: one letter grade off per day late, accepted up to two days late. Three or more days late = grade of F." or "Late work not accepted. No exceptions!"
ReplyDeleteI'd like your take on a situation I'm dealing with. One of my kid's teachers posts assignments on four separate sites. Sometimes all of one assignment will be on one site, sometimes the assignment can be scattered on 1 to 4 of the sites.
ReplyDeleteAt the back to school zoom night, I caught on that there were two sites, didn't realize there were four.
This teacher also doesn't grade assignments in a timely fashion.
So, my kid apparently doesn't realize that there on assignments on one of the sites and doesn't do them. The teacher doesn't grade them until November, a couple months after they were assigned.
Kid says he didn't know about the assignments. I didn't check too much because he had 99% average at quarter grades and why heliocopter when you don't have to.
The week after quarter grades come out, teacher grades the assignment and kid's grade drop to low 70s.
Teacher now won't let him make up the assignments.
Obviously, kid is not blameless, but I don't think it is all his fault.
What would you do?
1st anonymous: I *could*, but shouldn't have to. One would think the "due" in "due date" would be sufficient.
ReplyDelete2nd Anonymous: 4 different sites? Absurd. Not a good way to do business. And not grading stuff for weeks or months? Again, crappy job.
ReplyDeleteWhat can you do about it? I guess it depends on where you live. *You* should contact the instructor first, explain your view of the situation, and ask for a reply. If that reply doesn't satisfy you, then you elevate the situation to the principal.
If there's no more to the situation than what you've described, your child has one of those teachers that makes all of us look bad.
The wording suggests there are other things going on in the background for your student that student wants to keep private.
ReplyDeleteIs the parent wanting the student to be on the college track? If not, its highly likely the parent is sabotaging and the student is actually doing what they can when they can. If the student didn't care, would they bother turning anything in? Would they bother conversing with you? If the parents actually cared, would they be in the Principal's office asking for an Incomplete? That would be what happens in my area, however your area is completely different.
You're an asshole.
ReplyDeleteUnder COVID, my kids turn in work late all the time. Why? Cause teachers suck at getting assignments graded on time. It's hard to figure out what is late and what hasn't been turned in.
They may get pinged 10%.
You're just lazy and don't and don't want to grade it.
I'm quite efficient at getting things graded. My Google Classroom is well organized, with assignment and due dates made very clear.
ReplyDeleteEven if that weren't so, how does *my* getting assignments graded on time affect *your* ability to turn in an assignment on time? Especially when I discuss the assignments in class and remind students of the due dates?
I've been accused of many things, anonymous, but not being a lazy teacher. Asshole? Maybe. But not lazy.
Curious what I think of you, based on your writing?
lgm,
ReplyDeleteI have no indication of anything other than "entitlement", and I'm not going to encourage that.
As a parent, it's hard to keep track of all this stuff. My kids have 10 teachers between them. No two use google classrooms the same way.
ReplyDeleteSome of my kids teachers have accepted work 2-3 months late.
Why? COVID.
It's a nightmare out there.
Parents and kids are going through a tough time.
Teachers have it easy.
Do you have kids at home? A spouse?
Have you lost paychecks during these tough times?
No, no, and no?
Second anon here. There is more, as always. The kid in question in my youngest. My older one had this teacher, so I knew she was disorganized and pulled stunts like this. She assigns a ton of work and doesn't grade it.
ReplyDeleteI probably should have ridden herd on both of them, but I wanted to believe that my son had everything under control.
I told my son that she assigned work and didn't grade it. He knew that as well, but believed that when a parent brought up the ungraded work, the teacher then graded it harshly. I actually agree with him on this.
I did email the teacher about letting him make up the work, with some details about bullying he had dealt with the previous year. She had him read my email, her email response in class, albeit silently, and then wanted to discuss the emails with him with the rest of the class as an audience.
He is transferring out of that class at semester.
Needless to say, she has tenure.
Regarding your student, yes he should have turned the work in on time. However, if this is the first time he has had you as a teacher, he may well have been under the impression that a) late work is acceptable and b) there are negative repercussions for asking about it.
Penultimate anonymous: Teachers have it easy? You're a wackjob.
ReplyDeleteLook, just because you don't want to have any standards doesn't mean I shouldn't have any. Instead of coming here and playing the fool, what say you go help your kids. Just a suggestion.
Teachers have it easy compared to most people during COVID.
ReplyDeleteYou have a safe, secure government job with government benefits.
Most people out there are struggling. You're biggest problem is that you're getting too fat. Am I right?
My kids got straight A's this school year because I don't put up with any nonsense from mean spirited, process oriented bureaucrats.
LOL the whining anonymous is something else. No one told you have to kids that you couldn't manage. Good riddance.
ReplyDeleteI got straight A's in high school without my parents' trying to throw their weight around bullying teachers.
ReplyDeleteYou know what *I* say to parents who try to intimidate me? "Please look up California Education Code Section 49066." You don't like the law? Change it.
As for mean-spirited: I'm called many things, but "mean-spirited" usually isn't among them. Anything else you want to throw at me?
I taught for 20+ years and every year I sent out a written syllabus outlining my late work policies that parents and students sign. I kept them in a file in my desk. My district has a very lax policy for late work due to excused absences such as illness or school trip of a day for every day missed. But teachers also have quarterly grade submission deadlines and parents are supposed to look at those grades online. Every year, about two weeks before the end of the term, I'd get plaintive emails and calls from parents, coaches and even the students themselves begging indulgence and extension, even though I often spent nights and weekend at school grading to get in grades on time. It might interest these parents to know that in college legally they have no right to see their kids' grades. What are these folks going to do when Junior or Missy spends entire semesters hung over and playing around because they have internalized no discipline at all? Trust me, losing a credit in high school is a much better lesson than losing time and money for tuition in college because nobody cared enough to let them fail.
ReplyDeletePS. To Anonymous: I understand your frustration over multiple sites. I'm pretty sure your school is using Canvas. Part of the reason I retired early is because I didn't want to learn a new and unnecessarily complex grading and messaging system. In Canvas, my district required a site for every single class taught. In cases where you had multiple levels in one class you were required to have a site for each level. Trust me, the teachers hate this. I was an early adopter of Google Classroom and it worked well. District administration likes to micromanage teachers by using these kinds of draconian site paradigms and it's counterproductive-almost taking more time to administer than teaching the class itself. Just saying.
ReplyDeleteDarren-Trust me every single one of these anonymous posters I've had conferences with during my time teaching. They seem to believe teachers are provided with magical formulae to make their children perform. These are the same parents who take their kids out of school for a cruise during finals or who insist their children be given special accommodations during testing. Too of the students we have now are less mature and less capable than they were just ten years ago. I used to bring out work that students of mine had done on the same projects a mere five years earlier to show the class examples of what could be accomplished. For many of them the very idea of not simply Googling a solution or copying what someone else had done was beyond them. This more than anything else is why I believe we must have vocational classes in schools. What are these people going to do with their lives when they find out being a Marine Biologist or Gender Studies major doesn't give them any life skills?
ReplyDelete